Humans will be a viable combination with anything and everything. Since most fantasy settings present humans as the dynamic and adaptable species, particularly the classics, (Tolkienesque humans,) we gave them a skillset that didn't focus anywhere; instead, they give the player more freedom in their investment in both skill and stat points.

Because of that, their skills will be suited to further developing any and every class. However, because their is not their own skills, but furthering development in other areas, their optimum matches will be those classes that have very troublesome skill trees with high-ranking skills that have lots of unlock requirements.

As for estimates? You'd have to ask Aaron about the coding aspect. All of the creative work is done, numbers have been assigned. Right now we're polishing, reviewing, making absolutely sure nothing stupid has been overlooked. Coding is going to begin very soon, but I can't tell you how long that will take - many of the skills are not like skills that have gone before, and the tables used to handle skills may have to be recoded.

To give you an idea of some of the new stuff that's coming up, I'll post here some of the new concepts that some of the skills apply, that haven't been seen in a DoH skill before. Some of the very coolest stuff isn't included here and there are a number of unique skills too, so this isn't a good representation of how far we're ranging from the skills you already know, but hopefully it'll give you something to chew on and think about for a while.

• Chain attacks. There will be some skills that permit a chance to chain an attack from the previous attack. This might, if you're very lucky, cause some pretty brutal combos, though every chain skill will have various limiting factors.
• Summons. Summons are expected to be separate, attackable entities, whos abilities are not just limited to attacking.
• Auras. There are some skills specifically built to help buff up your party members. Some of them also aid the character using them, some do not.
• Resist busters. There are also skills that reduce an enemy resistance. (Even into negative numbers.) Several choices have the ability to lower a resistance to a damage that they aren't capable of dealing, as a reward for those who build powerful, coordinated teams.
• Damage interception. Some skills permit a player to step in and take the blow for their team members, protecting their more vulnerable team-mates.

How about a new class that you can choose what skills are in the tree. The chameleon :) and to balance give it less returns then say a warrior with a melee ability. That would be Uber>

Because that would, A: require a huge amount of work for something that is only used in one class, and B: would enable players to find and exploit skill-combo abuses that I went to great lengths to eliminate, by for instance, making all skills of a certain type all racial or all class skills.

that's why i put diminished returns but whatever, could have been a bit nicer but what else would i expect from a flea on crack :)

I don't think that's enough. And some skills just don't mix. Like two damage specialist races, for instance - their S1 provides a conversion from one damage to another, turning up to 100% of all your damage into a boosted damage of a certain type. Say I use two of these skills. What happens? Is my phy converted to fir then my fir to ice? Or phy to ice to fir?

Class/race combos will have eight non-racial/cooldown skills. Even assuming you're not telling me you want to pick cooldowns and racials too, what happens when instead of a balanced skillset, you pick eight add damage skills?Even if they're all half as strong, you still have more damage boost than almost any combo.

Lastly . . . I can see the code that would be needed here. UI's would be needed, code would be needed, and none of that could even begin until someone (Me? Heck no.) worked out some mechanics to balance something so ridiculously unbalancing. It's just too much for a single class out of some thirty-odd classes.

It's a great idea, and it's interesting enough, but the only way it could ever be balanced was if it was nerfed so badly that it would never be a better choice than a standard combo - the abuses of it could be so overwhelming that the more balanced expressions of the class would also be ruined.

One thing I will say though, is that you will have to pick-and-choose skills. Most builds will have more than one way to play them, and the curves involved in the diminishing returns might make it more useful to invest only a bit, or it might make it not useful to invest unless you fully invest. Some skills are a little of both - you can gain a strength without much trade-off for weakness by investing a few points, or you can try to max the skill, pushing past unproductive mid-range investments to the last points, which should make all the points invested meaningful again.

(Damage specialist's racial skills are like this, allowing you to invest until the weakness makes it not worthwhile, or push ahead until your investment catches up with the rising weakness again, and max your damage.)

In short, there should be plenty of room for building your character with your choices and customized for your purposes. A player doesn't earn nearly enough points to max everything out, so I can't see you ever reaching the limit of where the skill points you can earn would take you.

i want you guys to email me everything thats been done so i can review it.

i deserve that much
:mrgreen:

Why, yes, of course! That makes perfect sense.

One quick question, how are you guys going to deal with the + skill equips when it comes to skill tiers? Is it going to stay the same, or will you have to reach a tier before the + skill will give bonus in it?

I haven't suggested any special handling of this - my thoughts are that those enchants should be absolute. You get +1 to every applicable skill, no matter what, even if you don't have access to invest in it. Those additional points should also work towards unlocking other skills.

The only way, in my opinion, they should differ from 'natural' skill points is that they should not could towards the cap - that is, if you have +3 to pirate skills, you should still be able to invest a full 35 'natural' points in the skill.

As I mentioned, I haven't talked this over with Aaron explicitly, but I don't see any reason that enchanted skill points should get and special or conditional treatment that natural points don't get.

Ooo, I have lots of combos to try now, hopefully my currents arent nerfed that bad XD..And guys, what kinda job you think Aarons doing with this update? In his update in late Dec or early Jan *Dont remember exactly*-He was sad because he didnt have it done by the end of the year, what do you guys say?

I say he should be proud because he and all his staff, though I may have problems with some, are all amazing and know what their doing. Also Aarons a great designer, and has done an amazing job with the progression of DoH.

Cant wait to see what the update looks like, hope to see it soon!